Here we go from

Why did SaRzCockzy ask the U.S for bail out money last week then?

To

Sarkozy last week looking for some bailout money.

And finally reach a link that does not support your claim :

news.yahoo.com . . .

You are full of shit, aren't you ?

Wulfrun wrote:

[q=Surrender_Monkey]Sarkozy last week looking for some bailout money.

news.yahoo.com . . .

??? Your link doesn't say anything about Sarko wanting money at all.[/q]

Oh no? I guess Sarko just offered some moral support and didn't want any of the bail out money. What was it the next day he pressed the panic button announcing the bail out of the Belgian bank.

we would have pretty much the situation of the 1930s.

perfect...fire up the tanks and head to france.

luv2hate_em wrote:

we would have pretty much the situation of the 1930s.

perfect...fire up the tanks and head to france.

what for?
we rather fire up the tanks towards frankfurt and the european central bank that is seated there, inviting our european neighbours to join and deliver our top-bankers the spanking they deserve..

Wulfrun wrote:

??? Your link doesn't say anything about Sarko wanting money at all.

Surrender_Monkey wrote:

Oh no? I guess Sarko just offered some moral support and didn't want any of the bail out money. What was it the next day he pressed the panic button announcing the bail out of the Belgian bank.

Again: what on earth leads you to believe he wanted or expected Bush to give US taxpayers' money to the EU, or to believe that Bush would want to or be allowed to do so? That would be most irregular and we'd surely have heard more about it from other sources. In fact the article implies the Sarko offered Bush support, not the other way around.

The whole fucking Euro system has been designed and run to benefit Germans. For the last few years, Berlin's been giving everyone else square-headed lectures on the need for germanic-style discipline, teamwork and "ze Eurogerman solidarity"

Hi Traffie!

Spanish passport or not, the old "little Englander" reflexes still work.

[q]The whole fucking Euro system has been designed and run to benefit Germans.

I really wanna understand how your brain works. What the hell did you think when you wrote this? Are you implying that anyone else doesn't benefit because they don't do any trade in the common market?

Shut up, fritzbitch.

For the last six years, the ECB has set the interest rate entirely in the interest of the economy of Fritzland. When other countries like France murmured that the said interest rate wasn't necessarily advantageous for their economies, Berlin told them to shut up and adopt ze teutonic efficiency and ze germanic fiscal discipline in ze name of ze european solidarity: "you schweinhunts will live wiz ze strong currency!"

Now the shit's hit the fan, Fritzland is shamelessly acting in its own national interest, a move which YOU support. Your jingoistic support for your nation-state (old habits die hard, eh?) begs one obvious question: who the fuck are you to call me a "little Englander" when you're the one waving the flag of Fritzland?

Fritzes: double-dealing, two-faced, illogical psycopaths.

If you are a Jew living in Germany or France, I advise you to run. Now. While you still can. You know how they get when things do downhill. I give it about 2 weeks before some Germans start blaming Jewish bankers for all this then, before you know it, it's the cattle cars and the one way trip to the showers. Get out while you still can.

Trafalgar.

Sarkosy asked clearly since 2 years to the ECB bank to decrease its interest rates. They always refused .Don't know who lead this bank behind the doors but the President is Jean Claude Trichet. His official reason : " we keep the interest rates like that to contain the Inflation"

From what i heard, he will be obliged to decrease them next year or before. Due to the crisis.

From what i heard, he will be obliged oto decrease them next year or before. Due to the crisis.

The ECB is NOT obliged to lower the interest rates , it is only an indicator : the banks can already do it up to this indicator. Just in case you did not notice , but on the last weeks, interest rates were increased by the banks without a single move from the ECB.

Yes, simple, I know.

France, Spain and Italy all hinted that the ECB's rate was too high. Germany "hinted" that France, Spain and Italy should all STFU and abide by the terms of monetary union.

Where's their square-headed sense of unity now, the bosch bastards?

Trafalgar wrote:

Shut up, fritzbitch.

For the last six years, the ECB has set the interest rate entirely in the interest of the economy of Fritzland. When other countries like France murmured that the said interest rate wasn't necessarily advantageous for their economies, Berlin told them to shut up and adopt ze teutonic efficiency and ze germanic fiscal discipline in ze name of ze european solidarity: "you schweinhunts will live wiz ze strong currency!"

Once again you are projecting nationalistic attitudes on others. You seem to be blissfully ignorant of the very way the European Central Bank is organized. It is by definition independent from national governments. This is indeed a feature modelled after the Bundesbank. As in the case of the Bundesbank, the German government has no say in the monetary policy of the central bank. The bank is governed by its president (first a dutchman, now a frenchman and its boardof directors, the directors of the national central banks of Euroland.

en.wikipedia.org . . .

Now the shit's hit the fan, Fritzland is shamelessly acting in its own national interest, a move which YOU support. Your jingoistic support for your nation-state (old habits die hard, eh?) begs one obvious question: who the fuck are you to call me a "little Englander" when you're the one waving the flag of Fritzland?[

Jingoistic? That's too over the top to be taken seriously.

Listen, fritz.

I'm well aware that it's "independent".

You're "blissfully unaware" - more like, you're a fucking liar - when you assert its indepedence.

If Germany, France, Italy and Spain all "hinted" that the interest rate was too high, it would be decreased. However, when Berlin says it has no problem with the base rate, it remains unchanged.

And don't trouble me with the chapter and verse of the Eurozone rule book: we ALL saw how a certain country of psycho squareheads was allowed to breach the 3% of GDP rule with impunity.

Now, do you want to explain why a "European" like you suddenly becomes "German" when money's involved? Getting ready to dust down grandpa's uniform, are ya?

France, Spain and Italy all hinted that the ECB's rate was too high. Germany "hinted" that France, Spain and Italy should all STFU and abide by the terms of monetary union.

LOL. Firstly, I don't think anyone in Europe gives a shit what Spain thinks.

Second, everyone knew the rules when they joined the Euro, so their is no point joining the club and then squabbling about it.

ChampionGoats wrote:

If you are a Jew living in Germany or France, I advise you to run. Now. While you still can. You know how they get when things do downhill. I give it about 2 weeks before some Germans start blaming Jewish bankers for all this then, before you know it, it's the cattle cars and the one way trip to the showers. Get out while you still can.

LOL. I strongly suspected it from the other thread, now I know: you are a complete and dimmer-than-average ignoramus.

How many real anti-Semites do you think there are in Germany these days? And how many Jewish bankers do you think there are these days in Germany? (here's a clue: enough to nearly fill a taxi).

If anybody apart from the German bank managers gets the blame for the crisis, it will be American politicians and speculators!

You'd best warn your fellow Yanks to run away instead before their fat asses get kicked.

Wulfrun wrote:

[q=ChampionGoats]If you are a Jew living in Germany or France, I advise you to run. Now. While you still can. You know how they get when things do downhill. I give it about 2 weeks before some Germans start blaming Jewish bankers for all this then, before you know it, it's the cattle cars and the one way trip to the showers. Get out while you still can.

LOL. I strongly suspected it from the other thread, now I know: you are a complete and dimmer-than-average ignoramus.

How many real anti-Semites do you think there are in Germany these days? And how many Jewish bankers do you think there are these days in Germany? (here's a clue: enough to nearly fill a taxi).

If anybody apart from the German bank managers gets the blame for the crisis, it will be American politicians and speculators!

You'd best warn your fellow Yanks to run away instead before their fat asses get kicked.

Wow Germany only has enough Muslims, Marxists, and Nazis to fill one taxi?

What amazes me is the inability of bashers to understand what the EU is, and what it is not.

The EU is NOT a super-state with a huge budget, and abysmal deficits and debt like the US Federal State.
The EU's budget is smaller than France's, there's no such thing as a EU budget deficit or EU Federal Debt.

It's generally the same people who blame the EU for not doing enough and who deny it the tools and funds it would need to be more efficient.

Would I wish that the EU could and would do more in this financial crisis?
Yes, of course! But at least I'm consistent when I support enlarging its competences and fundings.

And, for now, the EU cannot take ANY decision or even intervene in a field about which member-states' democratic representations didn't anonymously give it the power to do so.

Let's just be thankful that the simple fact that the EU exists give its members some kind of protection, especially in the Eurozone.
Look at Iceland, without the EU, many small EU countries would already be bankrupt, and not only a couple of their banks but the whole country.

Atlantic wrote:

What amazes me is the inability of bashers to understand what the EU is, and what it is not.

The EU is NOT a super-state with a huge budget, and abysmal deficits and debt like the US Federal State.

What amazes me is the Yurps' ability to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that their countries don't have bigger budgets and bigger debt per capita than America does.

And, for now, the EU cannot take ANY decision or even intervene in a field about which member-states' democratic representations didn't anonymously give it the power to do so.

The Eurocrats are doing their best to change that....ie. to seize more power unto themselves even though the council and the commission are not elected bodies and the people in Europe do not support it and have voted against the EU seizing more power.

Let's just be thankful that the simple fact that the EU exists give its members some kind of protection, especially in the Eurozone.

Exactly what kind of "protection" does it provide?

What amazes me is the Yurps' ability to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that their countries don't have bigger budgets and bigger debt per capita than America does.

We only have our national debts' burden, you have both your $ 10 trillion federal debt and your individual state debt.

the council and the commission are not elected bodies

The commission just enforces the council's policy, and the council is composed of democratically elected heads of state or government, or of their ministers.
The Constitution and the Lisbon Treaty aimed to give more power to the European Parliament but the same Euro-scepticals that blame the EU for a democratic deficit opposed this democratic improvement.

Exactly what kind of "protection" does it provide?

In this financial crisis, it's mainly the small states that felt and will feel this protection, especially if they use the Euro.
- EU membership automatically gives them the trustworthiness and credibility they wouldn't have alone.
- Being under the Euro's umbrella allowed Ireland to act in this crisis in a way that would have demolished their old national currency like it happened in Iceland where calls to join the EU and the Euro can now be heard. (See EUFinland's excellent thread: www.fuckfrance.com . . . )

Atlantic wrote:

We only have our national debts' burden, you have both your $ 10 trillion federal debt and your individual state debt..

and yet total national debt is considerably higher in Europe. I've linked the OECD page here so many times I'm not even going to bother wasting my time doing it again.

The commission just enforces the council's policy, and the council is composed of democratically elected heads of state or government, or of their ministers.
The Constitution and the Lisbon Treaty aimed to give more power to the European Parliament but the same Euro-scepticals that blame the EU for a democratic deficit opposed this democratic improvement..

The only elected EU body-the Parliament, is toothless. Everybody knows the real deals get done by heads of state at a national level....though the EUrocrats are quietly and stealthily grabbing ever more power unto themselves. That's why people rightly talk about the EU's democratic deficit. Its not really democratic and everyone knows it. Lisbon wasn't about "improving" EU governance, it was about grabbing yet more power away from democratically elected national governments and putting it into the hands of EUrocrats.

In this financial crisis, it's mainly the small states that felt and will feel this protection, especially if they use the Euro..

Small states.....Like Britain which had to engage in bailouts....like Spain which has massive economic problems right now.....like Germany which is trying to engineer a big bailout....like France which has already had to bail out one bank with more on the way?

- EU membership automatically gives them the trustworthiness and credibility they wouldn't have alone.

LOL! Trustworthiness and credibility? That's exactly what the EU lacks. How "trustworthy" or "credible" is it when the EU punishes Portugal for breaking EU rules and then lets Germany and France slide for breaking those same rules? It also saddles states with a one-size-fits-all monetary policy which does considerable harm to some of them.

- Being under the Euro's umbrella allowed Ireland to act in this crisis in a way that would have demolished their old national currency like it happened in Iceland where calls to join the EU and the Euro can now be heard. (See EUFinland's excellent thread:.

Ireland flagrantly broke EU rules when it issued its deposit garuantee...then several others followed. Once again, this shows what a bad joke the EU really is. When the shit hits the fan, people fall back on their nation states where their loyalty really lies. They know they can't count on the EU for anything.

and yet total national debt is considerably higher in Europe.

Total national debtS!
If the EU's debt is the sum of its member-states debts, then so is its Olympics medals tally!

Those deficits and debts are the result of individual member-states economical policies, approved by their democratically elected parliaments.
You can't blame the EU for it.
You want a single EU economical policy approved by the European Parliament? So do I.

The only elected EU body-the Parliament, is toothless. Everybody knows the real deals get done by heads of state at a national level....

Heads of states are elected too.
Besides, they rarely got biten by their own parliament when they have the majority...
The European Parliament has the powers individual states' democratic representation unanymously agreed to give him.
You want more power for the EP? So do I.

Small states.....Like Britain

Obvously not like Britain.

LOL! Trustworthiness and credibility? That's exactly what the EU lacks.

If true, the Euro would be worth half a dollar.

It also saddles states with a one-size-fits-all monetary policy which does considerable harm to some of them.

Preventing competitive devaluation and politician monetary policies doesn't harm.
Do I care if the US Fed's policy doesn't exactly fits all 50 US states' situation?

They know they can't count on the EU for anything.

Why would they count on the EU on subjects they didn't give it the tools and mandate to act, yet?

Atlantic wrote:

Total national debtS!
If the EU's debt is the sum of its member-states debts, then so is its Olympics medals tally!

Nice try but I didn't say "EU debt". I said total debts in Europe. So......Fail!

Those deficits and debts are the result of individual member-states economical policies, approved by their democratically elected parliaments.
You can't blame the EU for it.

I don't blame the EU for it.....just pointing out that Europe is in worse shape than America on this score (and almost all others).

[/q]You want a single EU economical policy approved by the European Parliament? So do I.

No, I don't think the whole EU project is viable because ultimately people are tribal and their loyalty is always going to stay with their nation state.

Heads of states are elected too.
Besides, they rarely got biten by their own parliament when they have the majority...
The European Parliament has the powers individual states' democratic representation unanymously agreed to give him.
You want more power for the EP? So do I.

All the deals getting done by the heads of state rather than within the official machinery of the EU puts the lie to the myth of some grand pan European superstate. All the deals are done by heads of Europe's historic nation states. Giving the Euro-parliament would help to offset the undemocratic nature of the executive bodies within the EU machinery....but like I said I think the whole project was doomed to failure from the start. Once again, the elites failed to understand their own people.

Preventing competitive devaluation and politician monetary policies doesn't harm.
Do I care if the US Fed's policy doesn't exactly fits all 50 US states' situation?

Competitive devaluations carry a price tag-namely, inflation. Since the economies of different countries in Europe are not harmonized, work differently, people have different cultures and habits, etc. a one-size-fits-all interest rate is always going to be too loose for some which helps to inflate bubbles and too tight for others which chokes off growth. There is no comparison between different countries in Europe and different states in America. American states speak the same language, have the same culture more or less, have the same economic habits, etc.

Why would they count on the EU on subjects they didn't give it the tools and mandate to act, yet?

They didn't give it the tools and the mandate to act in more areas because the EU has done a lousy job in the areas it does have control over. Hey...your pickle is too curvy. You there! You can't use your own measuring system in your own country! You over there! You can't......etc. I don't blame people in a lot of Europe for being pissed off at that kind of bullshit. They're more patient than we would have been. We would have just smiled, told the bureaucrats they could go fuck themselves and dared them to try to do anything about it.

Atlantic wrote:

What amazes me is the inability of bashers to understand what the EU is, and what it is not.

The EU is NOT a super-state

Then quit saying and acting like it is shit-for-brains.

www.fuckfrance.com . . .

All is well.

The french 2009 stuff is out.


I don't know.

Ask simple.

He has them in six colors.

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